Remarks on the Relation between Plato and Thucydides

Vassilis Kalfas

Jump to Content

Chapter 5 Remarks on the Relation between Plato and Thucydides

In: New Essays on the Platonic Tradition

Author:

Vassilis Kalfas

Vassilis Kalfas
Search for other papers by Vassilis Kalfas in
Current site
Google Scholar
PubMed

Type:: Chapter

Pages:: 98–112

DOI:: https://doi.org/10.1163/9789004751149_006

Purchase instant access (PDF download and unlimited online access):

€42.00€35.00 excl. VAT

Add to Cart

Redeem Access Token

Abstract

My hypothesis is that the development of Plato’s political philosophy, particularly his conception of justice as a central political and moral virtue, owes more to Thucydides than to any other earlier writer. To put it more carefully: no surviving text that predates Plato’s work is more relevant to Platonic political philosophy than Thucydides’ History of the Peloponnesian War. To speak of the influence of Thucydides on Plato is not in itself to imply that they share the same political views. What I mean to suggest is that Thucydides’ approach to Athenian democracy in particular and the image of democracy that emerges from his writings in general are exactly what Plato opposes and in reaction to which he gradually shapes his own alternative perspective. However, that image, which is anything but trivial and differs sharply from contemporary understandings of democracy, has been a major source of our difficulties in understanding either author’s writings on the topic.

Thucydides regards Athenian democracy as the most advanced and superior political form of governance, unparalleled in its effectiveness and pursuit of domination, yet inherently tainted by arrogance, excess, and self-destructiveness. The impartiality and detachment with which he writes stem from his belief (or fear) that democracy is entirely compatible with human nature. Plato understands that Thucydides’ description is both accurate and impressive. However, he prefers to see it as an epiphenomenon, a chain of circumstances resulting from the degradation rather than the fulfilment of human nature. Plato’s Thrasymachus, and even more so Callicles, resemble many Thucydidean characters. The views they defend in Plato’s texts must have been widespread in late 5th-century Athens and can be easily traced in the speeches of the Athenian protagonists in Thucydides’ History. What Plato seeks to do is to accomplish the major task of dismantling democracy and its dominant values (starting, notably, with the critique of the poets) and establishing a new conception of justice based on the proper balance within the tripartite state and soul, the supremacy of wisdom, and the understanding of the Forms.

Citation Info

Save
Cite
Email this content

Share link with colleague or librarian

You can email a link to this page to a colleague or librarian:
Email this content
or copy the link directly:

https://brill.edhh.ma/abstract/book/9789004751149/BP000005.xml
The link was not copied. Your current browser may not support copying via this button.

Link copied successfully

Collapse
Expand

New Essays on the Platonic Tradition

In Honour of Paul Kalligas

Series: Studies in Platonism, Neoplatonism, and the Platonic Tradition, Volume: 35

Cover New Essays on the Platonic Tradition

E-Book ISBN:: 9789004751149

Publisher:: Brill

Print Publication Date:: 26 Feb 2026

Subjects
- Philosophy

Front Matter

Part 1

Part 2

Back Matter

Metrics

	All Time	Past 365 days	Past 30 Days
Abstract Views	277	277	75
Full Text Views	3	3	0
PDF Views & Downloads	7	7	0

African Studies	Education	Media Studies
American Studies	History	Middle East and Islamic Studies
Ancient Near East and Egypt	Human Rights and Humanitarian Law	Musicology
Art History	International Law	Philosophy
Asian Studies	International Relations	Religious Studies
Biblical Studies	Jewish Studies	Slavic and Eurasian Studies
Biology	Languages and Linguistics	Social Sciences
Book History and Cartography	Life Sciences	Theology and World Christianity
Classical Studies	Literature and Cultural Studies

Subjects

Authors

Open Access

Product Information

Company

Contact

Chapter 5 Remarks on the Relation between Plato and Thucydides

Abstract

Citation Info

Share link with colleague or librarian

New Essays on the Platonic Tradition

In Honour of Paul Kalligas

Table of Contents

Metrics

Metrics